Existence of God and The Law of Probability

ummmmmmmm...............good info.........good one!!!!!!!!!

good karan u have got the good and useful info for everyone here...it was really good job from your side....much appreciated

ranjith even u have got the good info and tried your hard ....it was a good job from ur side too in arguing the other side of this topic to make it wrong
dont tak it to heart and never mind me saying......

u are talking abt the things that are invented by some one in recent days....
ok lets talk about the topic of stopping the birth of a child....there is even the options of making the birth easy....but think where were these experts and their techniques before the man existed in this world...even then there was life that was existing right ?
do u really think that man is the human power who can control the world ..... and its the nature that controls the climatic conditions.....
it is the only thing that what has been already created by the super power...we getting clever, first know how is it actually taking place and then invented the power of stopping the birth of a child .......where was the knowledge or science when there was no man existed on this earth.
even then life existed but it was not stopped or demolished by some one with their higher cleverness

and talking about the nature and its present situation of climatic changes...it was the best climatic conditions before i.e., quite while ago, around the early times of lif existence on the earth....
it is not the nature that is making the disruptions in climate...it is we and our faults that we were doing since long ..has brought the situation of the nature to this extent.....for example think about the ozone layer...what happened to it ...was it been removed from above of the certain countries by the nature...no it was not...it was our fault of usage of different harmful materials that create harm to the existence of the organisms and also to the nature......
i dont say that man has created nothing...he did certain things inorder to make our lives luxurious, and some considered in harming life

as you have asked the proof of existence of the supreme power, i will ask you one thing......

can you show your hunger, and how does it look like when you are hungry

one more thing if you want to see certain official who works for us, you got to have the permission and appointment to see and meet him...then how can we think or expect to see him when ever we feel to...thats the reason in order to make us secure and feel comfortable, he is in different forms with us. and  mother is one of the form of that supreme power who has created for us with whole lot of love to take care of us, and  who takes care of us more than of taking care of herself

this is just the start of the thinking and getting into the discussion of whether really if god existed....

sorry ranjith if any of my words have hurted you, but i have written what i felt in my heart....

anitha ji

i think u have not understand wat i like to say.let me clearify what i tried to say.i believe in these main principals of nature

1.a natural thing can be made only from natural thing
2.a natural thing only converts into other natural thing
3.nature is itself creator and distroyer
4.mukti is impossible (as after distroyig meterial u get equal amount of meterial)
5.all the nature is only meterial and meterial is absolute

   i have proved only these laws in simple words ie
1.all the things in this world is made from other things ie
earth made from sun,humen made from the cells,cells made from the things we ate and drink. every thing is made from another meterial thing.

2.you have seen that natural things only changes into other natural thigs as our eatables converted into cells of our body.

3.you are creating difference between the nature and human.human is also a natural thing as made from the same meterial.so the humen is also included in nature.and every changes in this universe is made by the clashes of natural powers.from infinity till infinity its only nature which have created and destroyed

4.if anything is distructed we get another thing so the mukti is impossible term.and meterials are changing into other meterial things so nature is absolute.

and i want the simple answers:-

1.if nature is created by god how hi created it without any meterial?
2.if every thing is created by someone who created the god?

or as i think nature is not created by anyone and it is always existed and will exist till infinity is true.

agnoists are free thinker and dont run from arguments.experiences are only personal matter as after meditation chrishtins see the jesus into dreams and hindu see rama in their dreams.it can not be proved wat they have seen was real or only superstition.only religious persons can be hurt by words.creatoin is not taught in science classes and no one can get good marks in any subject by only gods grace.if anyone believe in god he should answer that quistions to the ignorent one

hunger is not a thing. the non existence of food in the tummy is called hunger.god is not a thing .the non existence of knowledge about anything is called god(if we dont know the real reason of any thing we say god knows or god done it as some says illness is made by god and not by virus and u said mothers are made by god) simple quistion and simple answer

i dont know why god gives appointment only to their agents not to everyone otherwise tell me have u met the real god,ur father,ur mother,ur grandfather, ur grandmother,their perents met it .only agents of god told us that they have met the god and all the things they are saying is said to them by god although i also dont know why god say different things to every agent.god knows

karanji

the quistion is still not answered

who created the god?

if hydrozen is created by god only by sankalp shakti and does not exist before then from where this god came

imagine that there was nothing no proton no electron nothing
suddenly god (i dont know from where)awaked from long sleep and started creating atom(why i still dont know)and nature by itself.if god is in every thing he must create every natural power with himself.it means that some power is absolute which is itself creater modifiar and distroyer
you named it god and i named it nature.for me nature(god)is natural power ie meterial and for u its super natural power.

you will ask if we believe in same thing why u dont believe in existense of god.now i will explain the difference between ur(saints) defination of god and my defination of nature (in my veiw real god).

god:the deeds of god be changed by meditation ie if earthquake cames god will save the  person who  prays him and do the punya karam

nature:nature will only save those who make himself able to be saved ie japanise will be saved who makes the homes which can not be distroyed by earthquakes.a person do punya or paap will make no difference.

god:there is a prize and punishment for every punya and paap.ie for indian religions the god will punish the sinful in next janma or in same janma and for the forighen religions he will wait till judgement day.

nature:there is no prize and punishment only results of ur deeds.you can get prize for the deed which is sin in religion and punishment also for good deeds in the view of religion.the women prays more(good deed) then men but the women suffers the most in roits,bhagdar in religious places.

god:every thing is pre determined by god and death is pre determined

nature:nothing is pre determined. age can be changed by more health facialities as americans have higher average age then from indians becouse they have more health facilitis.

god:the only way to know and met the god is meditation by different ways

nature:the only way to know the nature(real god) is controled experiment and scientific reserch and by reserch we can see the butter in curd.by meditation we will only be hypnotised and get the wrong information which differ from men to men.

 there are much more difference between nature and god and we will discuss it later.i also want to know your views about karma theory as i am still ignorent about many things such as modern algebra(i believe nature is set of all the subsets).i only answered anithaji that there is no need to take appointment(meditation and go to agents) to met the god as real god(nature) is every where (although man created god lives in religious places and give appointment only to few one) .thanks for using more good language for the kids(ignorents one).u said that i am not qualified to discuss the god then it is duty of the qualified persons to answer the unqualified one.

please note that these veiws are my personal veiws and i dont want to hurt any specific religion.  

sorry for poor english

hope to see u soon

take care

jai manavta

how can u say we can not understand the god by arguments.GEETA is also a argument between arjun and lord krishna.

religious person always run from arguments and says to shut the mouth to the rationalists(who dont believe without scintific verification) one becouse they are proved wrong every time by rationalists.some examples are copernikas and galilio who proved wrong the religious books and prefered the death.i want to quote a line about so called saints who are respected because of their miracules power but dont gives the chance to investigate their miracules powers and religious books:


HE WHO DOES NOT ALLOW HIS MIRACLES TO BE INVESTIGATED IS A CROOK.HE WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE COUREGE TO INVESTIGATE THE MIRACLE IS A GULLIBLE AND HE WHO IS PREPARED TO BEHAVE WITHOUT VERIFICATION IS A FOOL
                                                DR.ABRAHAM KOVOOR

please go to WWW.TARKSHEEL.COM to see my evil friends who are doing the evil things stated below:
1. to investigate the miracules powers of the so called saints by controled experiment.
2. gives open challange to win rupee two lakh to all the saints who can do something which can not be done without natural powers.no one have won the challange till yet.
3. do the miracles themselves to educate people how it can be done without preying.
4. to investigate the psychologic illness and cure them with hypnotism which is born by these so called saints and blind faiths about good and evil super natural powers.
5. to apply the scintific laws to religious books and educate people about their truthfullness

Ranjit,

what scientific laws, discoveries, and researches you are talking about. They keep on changing every now and then. Except for some basic principles that are same in both science and philosophy e.g. law of action and reaction. Newton's laws were considered ultimate till Einstein discovered law of relativity.

If you want to understand God, first know yourself. Forget about the God. Tell me who you are. Can you tell me who you really are? I am not asking you your name which has been given to you by your parents. I am asking about the person whom you call 'I'.

Find out that 'I' and you will know all that has to be known!

i think before going i should answer the other things written by u

  i know that science is changing day by day.but it is still more reliable from the religious books which has different idea about the god.and also scince proves wat they say and are ready to change the knowledge open mindedly if proved wrong.but religious persons are not ready to change even a word from their books if proved wrong.

wat i wrote before in this thread can be proved by controlled experiment .but it can hurt religious sentiments.

the theory of action and reaction is different in religon and science.if u harm anyone he will harm u is scientific and if u harm anyone and god will write it into his book and harm u in next janma is religious theory.