Existence of God [Part-II]

hello friends,

It is my first visit to the site. I came by chance (spiritualism says that nothing is by chance in this world). I saw this discussion. Interesting one.

First about Karan.sri.

I do not about your age, but you seem to be a genuine seeker (of god). A few years back I also started about the same way. some of the books refereed by you were read in the beginning by me. I do not want to dishearten you, nor I am against any individual. I also visited the some small ashram of Swami Rama in south delhi to join for meditation but God was guiding me so it did not allow me. Later I read a news item in Indian express Delhi that Swami Rama was charged for molestation by some body and the Court of that country ordered the ashram of Swami Ram to pay compensation even though swami Ram had died. Subsequently I met an old man about 70 years, to know about kundalini awakening though pranayama, although I did not met that gentleman again, who told me that there were news item that after the death of swami Ram there were dispute as to who will lit the pyre, as his other son from second marriage from foreign country had also come at the time of funeral.

What I am trying to say is that don't believe what is written in books is absolutely true. It may be false experiences, it may be to make the book saleable etc. etc.

A stage comes in everybody's life like the one you are passing. You want to convince others. But a time comes you just say what you know is right, (not feeling but experience). I read a spiritual book in which there were some lines like that " Tum apni mashal (torch) jalao, usko le kar har ek ke paas  ghumte mat phiro, jinko jaroorat hogi apne aap tumhare paas roshni ke liye chale aayenge" Had it been possible so convince others, the sages, the gurus, the so called GODs would have already done it in the past. Who knows that there was a time when we were also passing throught the same stage through which ranjeet_rp is passing.

You may try but I don't think that you will be able to convince ranjeet_rp. If you are real genuine seeker pray to the god that you may find ture guru. Rest is his job. all the questions and answers will be a matter of past. I had a frustration  in the beginning to find that how the fake gurus are dominating and large number of genuine seekers are being misguided by them. I use to question my self and the GOD that what is the fault of the seeker in it. But later I realize that even in this the plan of the GOD is working, perhaps the TIME FOR SALVATION FOR ALL THESE HAS NOT COME

Now Mr. ranjeet_rp. Nothing personal in it friend. You are also a seeker. Go ahead. This is the right path for you. Don't stop. If you will, then at one point of time you will have the feelings that Had I done that it would have been better. So the best course in life is to do what you think is correct. Then after walking on that path, make genuine self assessment of your self, your progress within your self. There is no need to tell it about any body. But try to see that the conclusions being drawn by you are coming from your mind, ego who never likes to be defeated or something bigger and better which is your spiritual friend within you that will never let you down. It is better to start with questions like, Who am I, from where I came, where I will go, what is my origin, what is the origin of the origin, why I am ranjeet_rp, why not any body else, why born here, why I have these parents, friends, family members, how long I will be having birth and dying, how this process will end, so on and so on.

I remember an old story. It says that When Budha got enlightenment all the past lives flashes through his eyes. He saw that in one life he was with a monk. After somedays, the monk told him to leave and go elsewhere as he had given the knowledge to Budha which he possessed. At the time of leaving budha touched the feet of that monk. The monk in return also touched the feet of Budha. It surprised budha. He asked for the reasons of the same. The monk replied that we all are the travellers of the same path. It hardly matters that I am half a step ahead of you.

It is not possible to do the same to both of you through this site, but my sincere and deepest regards to both of you and to other members who participated in it as moderator or in anyother way.

Thanx a lot Miss for teaching us how to find God.........i m impressed...........kash apne pehle samjhaya hota to hum itna bara discussion he nahi karte............chalo koi baat nahi, ab to samajh me aa gaya hay...........

Hello,

Sorry for replying late as I was out of station for many days.

Sorry Karan I never intended to hurt you. Don’t say that you have not been hurt:

“Tumhari ranjish khuli tarj-e-bayan se,
Jo na thi dil mein to kyun aayee jubaan pe-daag”

And Karan

“Humko dushman ki nigahon se na dekha kije,
Pyar hi pyar hai ham, ham pe bharosa keeje’

Just because you have mentioned about the books written by him, so instantously it came into my mind and I mentioned about that. I apologise again for hurting your feelings.

with regards.

pyari kudi ji,

tusi te bariaan pyariaan pyaariaan gallan karde ho,tusi mainoo pahilaan kyon nahin mile..........

agar main dunia main koi bhi kaam isliye karoon ki isse mujhe god khush hoker kuch dega to ye ache kaam nahin,business kahlaaega

aur agar main koi kaam isliye karoon ki agar main aisa nahin karoonga to mujhe iski saja agle janma yaa isi janma main milegi to ye bhi kaam nahin meri bujdili kahlaaegi

isiliye main jo bhi kaam karta hoon use tark ki kasauti par parakh kar karta hoon,sabse waisa hi wyowhaar karta hoon jaisa mai usse chahta hoon.

par tuhadi soch bari changi hai te main isdi kadar karda haan.....

just musafir ji,

you have written very beautifully in this thread for me.actually i am not the seekar of god.i believe that truth is a pathless land and you cannot get the ultimate truth by any path.all the paths are derived from personal experiences and it differs from man to man.the real truth is very big like an elephent and we are the blind persons who touches the tail and said "its rope" who touches the trunk says"its snake"who touches the feet and said"you all are wrong its tree"

i am a free thinker and quistions all the beliefs,when i get scientific and rational answer i believe,but i cant blindfaith in any book.i personaly examined many of the miracles myself and i found that these all are frauds.
      a person nearby me was doing the cure of jaundice.he put choona in a bowl,touches the eyes of the deseased and then he put the fingers in the bowl,the water becomes yellow.after examining we found that he was using powder of the skin of mango tree.its look like sand and he poured it nearby the photo of god.when a person come to him he touches the feet of god and then put his fingers on the eye of deaceased and put it into the bowl.by chemical reaction it became yellow.because jaundice is curable by our immune system itself,50% paitent cures.he is in the prison now.see some photographes on the link

http://www.tarksheel.com/activities.htm
   
        i have rational answers of the quistions mantioned by u in ur post and i will post it in few days.please also see my other posts to know what i think.

karan ji,
        i have asked u many quistions and u have answered to read the books of swami vivekananda,devine life socity etc and i am learning these books.i am also reading the books of non believer philosphers.
i will post the critical review of the book"may i answer you?"very soon when i will get the full copy of it.i have  learned some satyarth prakash by swami dayanand in these days.if i will be convinced i will post it.like you, i also cant understand why saints believe in mystic ways.the best way to teach a person that u should personaly do the things.

thanks to all the friends who have given their veiws.

who i am?

main nature dwara design ki gayee ek machine hoon jo ki cells se bani hai.mere cells main  bhi wahi padarth(meterial)  hain jinse is universe ke har ek cheej main hai.scientists ne 92 mool tatwa dhoondhe hain.is brahmand ki saari wastuwain unhin mool tatwon se bani hain.inmain se 16 tatwon ke nucli tides se jiwit padarth bane hai.inmain se sirf char aur paanch mool tatwon ke nuclee tides se insaani cells bane hain.par mere cells creation ke waqt se hi aise nahin the.ye croron saalon ke evolution ka natija hai jaisa aaj mera shareer hai.pahla jivit prani samunder main nirjeev padarthon se bana tha.is baat ka koi saboot nahin hai ki ise kisi intelligent supreme commander ne apni dekh rekh main banwaya tha ya by chance huwa tha.
    mere khyaal se prashna mere sharir ke bare main nahin balki us personality ke bare main hai jo mere andar hai.mera niji wichaar hai ki mere ander ki personality jise atma kahte hain woh bhi inhi padarthon se bani hai.manowaigyanik kahte hain ki ham sab mainkuch mool prawirtiyaan hoti hain.ye prawirtiyaan hamare shareer main perents ke dwara download ki jaati hain.hamari aadton aur watawaran se inki matra barhti aur ghatti rahti hai.is baat ka koi saboot nahin hai(siwaae dharmik kitaabon ke) ki ye prawirtiyaan pichle janma ke karmon se bani huwi hoon aur agle janma main saath jaati hon.ye prawirtiyaan har insaan main alag alag matra main hoti hain aur ye hamare shareer ke hardware main software ki tarah hain.ye hamare maind ke harmones hain aur electric currunt se badli jaa sakti hain.in prawirtiyon ko hamara dimag jahan store karta hai use ardh chetan man kahte hain.ye ardh chetan man suchet man kaa gulaam hai.aur suchet man ko kabu karne wali power hai buddhi,jo ki ham paanch senses ke dwaraprapt karte hain.in dono aur five senses  ke totality ko aatma kah diya jaata hai.mere khyaal se ye sab wastuwain padarth hai,hamari body ka part hain.is baat ka koi saboot nahin hai ke mere marne ke baad ye nikal ke kisi aur main chali jaayegi.ye waise hi hai jaise doodh main makhan hai.agar aap ek glaas doodh ko jala do to uska butter bhi saath hi main jal jaata hai,dusre glaas main nahin chala jaata.
(for more information please read a view of life after death by a t kovoor in chit chat and gernal discussion)
     baaki ki sabhi wyakhyain purani ho chuki hain aur ab unmain wishwaas rakhne ka mere paas koi kaaran nahin hai.un sbhi wyakhyaaon ka koi scientific aadhaar nahin hai aur sirf  wahin orthodox thinking hai ki hamari dharmik kitab main likha hai isliye ye galat nahin ho sakta.

i will post my views about other quistions of jaanasheen one by one.

where will i go?

now we know the fact that if we destroy any meterial we will get equal amount of meterial.meterial has been devided into matter and energy.we can change energy to matter and matter to energy.so matter and energy is absolute.if we change every matter into energy then energy remains.nothing can be created without anything.and that energy is the real god which is called nature.
so when people say that i and my inner personality will go to any heaven and hell or the personality between me will go to another living thing its not possible as my inner personality is also made from same meterial.actually i and my inner personality will change into another meterial.in ancient days we could not understand that why a person living between us stop working.now medical science knows that actually it is the nurons of our mind which stopped working due to several reasons.so when i will die nurons will be in my mind but cells of nurons will not work.(it can be judged in nurology section of any hospital that our inner personality is nothing but chemichals called nurons)and that dead nurons will become energy when my successors will burn me.my cells(include mind cells) dont dies at once.every day some of new cells are born and died when we work.even after our mind stop working the chornia of eye stays alive to be transplanted to others.we can make our heart and other cells alive by machines when mind stops working. we take rebirth in living and unliving things every day as our cells dies.i became part of a mosqiuto when it bites me and takes some of my blood cells and convert it into his cells.i became part of worms of water when i bathe and he takes my dead cells every day.same will happen to me after my death.

there is no proof that my inner personality will go to another living thing.actually all the meterial proofs are againest that ancient theory.

ALSO SEE:A VIEW FOR LIFE AFTER DEATH BY ABRAHAM T KOVOOR IN CHIT CHAT AND GENERAL DISCUSSION.

why i am ranjeet_rp?why not anybody else?why i got this family & friends?

before answering i want to write more related quistions:

why some take birth in rich families and why some take birth in poor families?

why some one is born less healthy then others?

why circumstances are not equal for every one ?

the ancient answer of these quistions are that due to previous karmas and ur deeds u get the birth in rich and poor families,u get the happiness and sorrows,the circumstanses are not equal.lets try to answer these quistions rationaly..............

when i was studing in jalandhar a person asked me same quistion and i answerd him that a rich farmer and a poor farmer reap a seed in there fields.they both gets plant.can u quistion the plant of a rich farmer that why u take birth in the field of a rich farmer. if he can answer he will tell that whoever reap a seed will get a plant.there is nothing to do with my last janma.where there is a seed there is a plant.same rule apply to the humens. poor person will also get a child as a rich person according to laws of nature if they have capebility to born a child.now it is upon the perents what name he choose for their children.my perents named me tinku when i born.then they changed my name to ranjeet.i will be tinku(anybody else) if they didnt change my name.

who is poor and who is rich is subjective.a person like me which is governer of reserve bank of india signed an ordinary paper and it becomes money.who ever occupy it more than other is rich in india but if u have same money in other country u are the poorest because it is only a paper in other country.smt.indira gandhi has made invalid the notes of 1000 in emergency and lot of people became poor. the rich and poor exists because we make the objects of nature our personal property.cunny and powerfull person has got more personal property then others.a person born in rich family can became poor if not capable to earn.

health is also determined by natural elements.if a farmer reap a ill seed in his field he will get less healthy plant.

how can circumstances be related to rebirth.circumstances are matter of chance.i was working as an account clerk three years ago for merely 2000 per month.it was an ad in a newspaper for the post of patwari.i applied for the post.there was 1000 contestent for the 13 posts.there was almost 80% chance that i will be selected because i have already got 7th rank in ett exams out of 3000 contestents.so i selected and circumstances changed.when i born my first child the circumstances was quit different from my second child.how can i relate the previous karmas of my first child with circumstances?circumstances exists before his birth but there is no proof that my first child exists before his birth?

because my perents reap a seed in the womb of my mother,i has been made.i didnt got this family,my family got me.it is now on chances of life that i will get good friends or not.

my perents are not because of me,i am because of my perents.